Hello all, I hope your weekend is going well. Meirra is taking a break this week while she visits family, and so I have decided to delay the next installment of our conversation until next week. Last week, it seemed that not many folks were able to read our post on the "model minority" stereotype, and I'd like to give you all more time to read it! I'd like to hear more from you all! We have opened the comment section on the blog and would like you to contribute to the conversation by leaving your comments there. However, if you'd prefer, feel free to email, call, or text us if you'd rather speak to us directly or you would like to write a piece for the blog! To further our conversation, I'd like to share an email we received from Keith Porterfield (Keith masa to me) last week on our first two posts.
"I have given your emails and blog posts a lot of thought. I am extremely hesitant to enter into discussions like this, in fact if it was anyone but family members I would not even consider it. In my experience it is very rare for them to result in truly open and respectful sharing of views and greater understanding. It is depressing to me to see discussions devolve into shouting matches where no one is listening; I simply have no interest in that and will not participate in it. On the other side is that fact of how much you two mean to me, which makes it difficult for me to ignore your request.
Your communications so far have touched on a rather vast range of topics, from the causes of the revolutionary war to sexuality, taxes, racism, mental illness, healthcare, and the Iraq war. I'm not sure where to begin; in fact there is really no way for me to begin with a scope this broad. I would encourage you to focus on a single topic and dive down deeper into the details so that a more meaningful and in-depth discussion can occur. I also would encourage you to try even harder to create that atmosphere of openness and respect that you strive for. For example, it is difficult for me to see how mocking people for "romantically" discussing the Iraq war furthers that aim. In my experience, sarcasm, even when it is clearly labeled as such, is not an effective tool to convince people of the wisdom of your position or to gain their trust. If you feel that people's opinions on an issue are wrong, then by all means say that, but state it logically with the reasons for your position. Dispute statements, positions, or views, but don't attack people by implying they are either racist or ignorant. It is unproductive and hurtful.
But finally and most importantly I want to address the issue of acceptance of you and all members of this family. There is no way to adequately describe how I feel about this family, and my nieces and nephews in particular. I have watched you, and to some extent participated with you, in growing up. What that has meant to me is one of the treasures of my life which I don't believe you will fully grasp until you hopefully have the opportunity to have a similar experience. To think that your sexuality or mental illness, or honestly anything else I can think of, might somehow impact how I feel about you is simply beyond my comprehension. And although I have never discussed it with other members of my generation or others, I have trouble believing it would be different for any of them. The fact that you didn't feel that baffles and troubles me. You mentioned the strength of actions vs words in your blog, and I believe that actions communicate far more powerfully than words. I honestly believed that by being involved in your lives that it would communicate how I felt. Hopefully this statement will achieve what I failed to communicate effectively through my actions.
P.S. Where are you publishing the responses? I feel like I am only hearing a small piece of the total conversation."
It meant so much to me to receive this email because by entering the conversation, Keith masa did communicate to us how much he values us. We would rather hear something from all of you, regardless of what you have to say, or whether you agree with us or not, than not hear anything at all. I know that many of you are busy, so we will try to keep our posts short (less than a 10-minute read) and focus on a single topic per post, and I appreciate that Keith masa gave us this great feedback.
Going forward, I will avoid using sarcasm, and I apologize
for contributing to a less than open atmosphere through my use of it in the
Editor's Note post. My use of the word "romantically" was meant to
highlight how young children were discussing a war without understanding the
potential human cost associated with war. My sarcasm was ineffective and
not particularly respectful, and I apologize for that.
We want to have an open conversation. We are listening. We will not dismiss any points of view without having researched them or respond with unfounded personal attacks. If you feel that we don't live up to this, please call us out, and we will do our best to fix any mistakes we make. If a viewpoint is discriminatory based on race, sexual orientation, gender, class, ability, etc. we will call that view racist, homophobic, sexist, classist, ableist, etc., with reasoning for doing so. However, this doesn't mean that we think the person who expresses it is racist, for example, but that the view is. We believe that everybody deserves the chance and opportunity to grow. Our views have developed and continue to grow as we learn more about these issues and others. We would love nothing more than to hear more people speak up and voice their opinions. We aren't here to cancel you, or to shame you into thinking a certain way. We want to learn from you as much as we want to provide our time and knowledge so that we can all have a better understanding of our society. I think we all want society to be equitable, and we have so much to learn from each other.
Before I sign off, I want to touch on love and acceptance. Keith masa, I know you love me. Your participation in my life has been an incredibly meaningful positive experience that has helped shape who I am today. I know that this family loves me. I know that you all will love me no matter what. However, I believe that your beliefs matter. I'll give an example of why I think this. Sorry, mom, I'm going to have to throw you under the bus for a minute. I know my mom loves me and will love me regardless of whether I struggle with depression or not, and it probably won't change how much she loves me. Ostensibly, she accepts me. One day, while my mom drove me to the train station, I tried to describe my feelings of depression to my mother. She stated to me, "happiness is a choice." I told her that I didn't think this was always the case, and she disagreed with me. Her belief is, or was at least, that happiness is a choice. This belief contradicts my lived experience with depression. I have Major Depressive Disorder, and when I am experiencing a depressive episode, I have never been able to 'choose' to be happy. I know how much she loves me, I know that she doesn't love me any less, but because she fundamentally disagreed with my lived experience, I didn't feel accepted, and thus not only did I then not want to discuss my mental health with her, but I didn't feel as loved. My struggle to accept my mom's love isn't her fault, per se, but her denial of my experience hurt me and affects how loved I feel. Maybe my mother's belief has evolved, but I don't know this for sure. (Sorry, mom!)
Generally, if a belief contradicts someone's lived experience, it will cause that person not to feel accepted by folks who hold the view, regardless of whether the holder of the view believes they will "accept" the person. That is why, in my opinion, it is tough to feel accepted if you don't have an understanding of what people's beliefs are. When we don't discuss our views, how can a person know they will be safely accepted? In my experience, it isn't safe to assume what other people believe, which contributes to the gap between talk and action. To me, vaguely expressing openness doesn't help me feel safe. What helps me is having a conversation and knowing people's beliefs so that I have an idea of people's perspectives. Perhaps other people disagree with me, or maybe you have experienced something similar to me. I'd love to hear your thoughts, and I'd like to know whether you understand what I am trying to say about love and acceptance. Please leave a comment below, email us, or communicate with me directly if you'd like. Hopefully, I get to hear from all of you! I'd also love to hear your thoughts on my recent post about the "model minority" stereotype, so give it a read and leave your comments on that article! Have a great week, folks!
I have started to reply numerous times, and then each time I stopped, as my range of feelings ranged from frustration to sadness. Incorporated in this blog are complex and deep personal issues that I don’t believe are best suited for a blog. That said, I am not a person who enjoys writing or corresponding via social media. But I will give it a go....
ReplyDeleteFirst and most importantly, I echo all of Keith’s comments, and I am sure many in the family do as well. Thank you, Keith for expressing it with such clarity.
If you want the blog to be about ‘what is happening in the world that impacts us as individuals today’, it needs to be much more focused. It’s too hard to respond to a dozen thoughts in one blog. I would also encourage more specificity in what you hope to achieve on each topic. If you are trying to educate or influence, you need to be more fact based. It's good to add supporting relevant experiences ---but never at someone else’s expense. It takes away from your credibility as it reads as finger pointing. For example, you mentioned that your mom once said, 'you have a choice to be happy'. Instead if you wrote "someone said to me that you have a choice to be happy', we are now all focused on the point that happiness is not always a choice for those with mental illness (vs. your issues with your mom. Btw, that needs to stop in the blog --- “mommy issues” are so cliché!).
This brings me back to the point of staying focused to the real purpose of what and why. As mentioned on our poker table exchange, you will always be disappointed if you live your life having expectations of what others should do or feel. It’s always easier to be the “Monday night quarterback”! And those in “glass houses should not be throwing stones!” (Being in HR, I have a hundred ways of saying ‘first, look in the mirror at yourself’).
Each of us have a different life experiences and added to our individual personalities that contribute to our life decisions, including our risk tolerance for relationships, financial security and career choices. We hope each of us are living our ‘best lives’ and are happy and healthy, but these are hopes, not expectations.
Now, back to one of your points on ‘model minorities’. Personally, I hate labels when talking about any group, as it can often be mis-leading -- and I am not sure what it achieves. While I personally feel privileged to have what I have, I attribute it to my parents’ hard work, my sister’s support, my hard work, my friend’s support – and some luck. That said, as a woman and an Indian working in financial services in 1990’s, I was never labelled as part of the ‘model minority’. There were very few Indians or women in M&A or on the trading floor. If that term existed back then, it was reserved for the Indian engineers and doctors. Even today, I can guarantee that the Indian working at the subway newspaper stand, or the mailman, or back in kitchen of the Indian restaurant, etc. feels that they are part of the ‘model minority’. As such, labels do not achieve much. I also don’t see the point of this label to Black Lives Matter. BLM is not about taking away achievements from another group, but about affording equal opportunity for everyone. And foremost, it is about actively working against racial injustice for the Black community.
From Shruti Patel
DeleteHey, Shruti Masi! Thank you for your comment, I appreciate the time and effort you put forth to write it! I understand not enjoying writing or corresponding via social media. I am thankful that you have set that aside to respond! It is always great to hear from you, and I appreciated the conversation last Sunday as well.
DeleteGenerally, I think the purpose here is to educate. We have spent a lot of time doing research while writing our main articles (like the "model minority" post), and in our responses, we will try to do the same. Our next post in the series, which should be focused on a singular topic and be based in fact, will drop next week. There is so much to cover, and as we continue on, I hope it becomes more apparent how it relates to the broader topic. Perhaps I should have spent a little more time on how it relates explicitly in this case.
In this case, its relation to BLM is twofold. The article helps identify some of the reasons Indian Americans have had success in climbing the social ladder. It highlights that despite discrimination, the social mobility that we experience is more similar to what white people experience. In contrast, Black folks tend to move down in socio-economic class relative to white and Asian-American people. We will start to get into why in the next article.
As a woman of colour, I'm sure you faced a lot of discrimination working in financial services in the '90s. You must've put in a lot of hard work to succeed in that world, which is no easy feat. That being said, I'm willing to bet that there were fewer Black women on that trading floor than Indian women, particularly proportionally. Even today, despite being one of the fastest-growing minority groups, Indian Americans make up just 0.9% of America's population, whereas 14% is Black. Similarly, poor and working-class Indian folks will experience classism and the disadvantages of being poor. The model minority stereotype is a myth, and there is no real benefit to it. The article was intended to highlight that this stereotype is a myth and that people experience different 'tiers' of racism. Black people can be working class and poor, and they can be women. Not only will they face racism and classism, but they will experience the intersection of these things and anti-Blackness. On average, Indian people will be able to rise while Black folks will more likely fall down when starting in roughly the same place. This doesn't take anything away from your effort and your struggles and triumphs in life. Nobody is suggesting that you haven't worked hard. I am only suggesting that Indians aren't Black, and thus do not experience anti-Blackness. This is relevant to BLM because it is easy to conflate the racism that we have faced with anti-Black racism. It is easy to assume that our success is due to our work ethic. This is true, working hard and having a little luck is the reason that people are successful. That being said, to understand anti-Black racism, it is vital to acknowledge that Black folks are denied opportunities that white Americans and other minorities have better access to. Going forward, we will dive deeper into the history and some of the effects of anti-Black racism. Still, this article was about dispelling the myth that perpetuates the idea that one group's success in contrast to the other group is based on 'culture' rather than differing oppression.
I mentioned the conversation with my mother to highlight how there is a difference between acceptance and love. The point wasn't, in fact, that happiness is or is not a choice for those with mental illness. I did not make a judgement on whether or not she is correct. Instead, I highlighted that what she believed at that time contradicted my lived experience and that the contradiction affected my ability to feel loved. I didn't address the validity of the belief, nor did I blame her for having it, and I didn't blame her for how I felt. To me, this experience was an excellent example of the difference between love and acceptance. I learned quite a bit about from analyzing my reaction to it, and I think it serves here as a clear and non-judgemental example of how someone's beliefs can affect how others respond to their love.
DeleteI don't think using the example had much to do with my issues with my mom or otherwise. After all, this 'issue' could be reasonably painlessly sorted out via a phone call, and I can thoroughly address my feelings with her. Regardless, I do think your statement "vs. your issues with your mom. Btw, that needs to stop in the blog ---
'mommy issues' are so cliché" is quite cavalier. If the conversation we are having is about me or any other family member, who wants to discuss mental health or different experiences that could be interpreted as a "mommy issue," I am not going to dismiss it. If the conversation is about my childhood and my mother is relevant to the issues I am trying to address, we will discuss it. By no means does this mean I'm just going to attack my mom, but parents make mistakes, and there is always something that can be learned from them. Aside from that, there are also abusive parents. I am so lucky to have a wonderful, loving mom, but not everybody is so fortunate. We strive to treat people and their experiences with respect, and thus, in my opinion, it wouldn't be appropriate to 'stop' including "mommy issues" in the blog. However, my guess is that you simply meant that I should stop blaming my mom for things, and again, I was careful to avoid this. I have learned so much from my relationship with my mom, and I think it is appropriate to share when it is relevant. If I want to share something I've learned from an experience that involves my mom, I'll be sure to continue to be considerate and careful with my words.